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Author Topic: Physical -v- emotional fidelity  (Read 2725 times)
chelbel
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2011 »

That's all behind me a long time, my last boyfriend was a true gent. We wanted different things in the end (nothing to do with marriage or that kind of life choice). More like different types of lifestyles. Which is okay too. A part of our growth is change.

I am happy in myself, happy with my choices too. I think that's probably the most important thing. I always believe once you can look yourself in the mirror and like who's looking back at you, you must be doing alright.

I know sometimes people cheat for the right reasons. And it's possible to fall out of one and in love with another. I just think the person your with in the now deserves a bit of respect and that might make something that could be painful just a little less..

Like RC i also believe in the good people. And i love that quote you put at the end.
Thanks for making me think out loud smudge
x


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clashcityrocker
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2011 »



I am happy in myself, happy with my choices too. I think that's probably the most important thing. I always believe once you can look yourself in the mirror and like who's looking back at you, you must be doing alright.



Well said, Chel, great attitude to have.

Much love
D x.
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chelbel
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2011 »

Thank you D,
Love to you too.
M x
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clashcityrocker
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« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2011 »

Infidelity is such an absolute, whether it is a drunken shag or pre organised liaison, itís still betrayal. My own view is that, in most cases the gender divide is crucial. In general rather than specific terms, I do think that there are more men than women who see infidelity as viable option, given the right opportunity. Iíve known many men who regard themselves as happily married, yet are willing to spend the dying moments of a Friday evening making the beast with two backs with some stranger in some squalid back alley way. I have nothing to back the following up with, other than empirical evidence gained from my own observations and experiences: women who are overtly promiscuous are often, though not always, themselves trapped in loveless relationships; are lonely and thus frequently vulnerable and insecure; and suffer low self esteem. Of course there are exceptions, but in most cases women who are fulfilled do not play around. I donít think itís too much of a leap to suggest that women are less genetically predisposed to promiscuity. Loneliness and depression quite clearly lead individuals to commit acts that they would find abhorrent in other circumstances. I know of a newly separated woman who very recently offered sexual favours to a man who she knew to be married. The man declined; they are still on friendly terms. I donít think this woman was necessarily a bad or immoral person; she was wrong to do what she did, but her actions were a result of the long evenings spent alone, and the thought that even a compromised relationship was better than none at all.

To digress slightly, itís unarguable that the sexualisation of children is a prime factor in teenage promiscuity, which kind of ties in with the question of emotional fidelity - albeit very loosely. Girls as young as ten are sporting playboy symbols and are wearing underwear more suited to the pages of The Sunday Sport. Teenage girls, in my view, are under far too much pressure to become sexually active at ever younger ages. Without getting all Daily Mail here, the consequences here are not only increased awareness of the nature of sex, but a vast and untenable rise in the number of teenage pregnancies. We have failed to strees the need for contraception; that is undeniable. Iíve never have and never will subscribe to the notion that young girls deliberately become pregnant in order to have their names placed at the top of the housing list, or see pregnancy as a legitimate method to fleece the state. But, it is quite ironic that, despite the preponderance of sex education in schools today- surely a Good Thing Ė it is ignorance that leads to so many children becoming parents themselves. The inherent problem is that it will require a change in social attitudes to reverse this. This will be impossible to achieve without demonising those girls who find themselves expectant mothers at unfeasible ages.  Furthermore, it should never be the case that those children born to teenagers themselves should ever be punished or pilloried in any way because of the unfortunate or unplanned circumstances surrounding their births.

We have lost much and gained nothing by allowing are children to become sexualised before they are fully grown themselves, or physically equipped to deal with the emotional minefield of sex. Iím not for a moment suggesting that all young girls should remain chaste until their wedding night, but I do look at other cultures and observe how much emphasis is placed on commitment and secure loving relationships before sex becomes an integral part of that bond. Ultimately, I think we, as a culture, have cheapened sex and sexuality. I seem to have strayed a bit from the original question and I apologise for that.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011 by clashcityrocker » Logged

Rock chick
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« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2011 »

There's another side to the coin as far as teenagers are concerned, though. Working in a primary school and within spitting distance of two all-girls secondary schools that most of our girls attend after leaving, I agree there are far too many teenage pregnancies, but I beg to differ on some of the reasons....from my personal experience, there isn't actually too many unwanted pregnancies, often on the boys part as well as the girls.

And it isn't to jump the housing list, or luxuriate in the benefits system, it's to be a family, to have someone to love and, even more tragically, to have someone love them. I don't necessarity believe it is due to ignorance - other than ignorance of the impact of having a child, and I don't always think it's down to them being pressurised into having sex too young.

We can all speculate on the reasons why children these days find themselves/choose to put themselves in this situation. For many youngsters, sex equals love, being close to someone, having a physical and emotional connection. At this age, their parents, wider families and friends should be providing this nurturing and emotional support, but clearly, a lot of young people don't find this to be the case. At work, we can pick out the girls who are going to be knocked up the minute someone shows them a bit of attention, and we're usually right.

Other cultures often have a different definition of family life, and although this might also be controlling and restricting in some ways, in other ways they may provide a structure that makes their children feel secure. Wish I had the answers.

It's an interesting point, the infidelity gender divide. I think there are too many exceptions to prove the rule, but on balance, I'd agree that men and women are unfaithful for different reasons.

Maybe it's just emotional security we all need, in all our relationships, not just our romantic ones. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011 by Rock chick » Logged

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clashcityrocker
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2011 »

Interesting points, Carole. I agree with the main thrust of your argument but I still stand by my contention that many teenagers committ to sexual relationships because of external pressures, whether this be peer pressure or emotional blackmail or any number of reasons. Moreover, I do believe that, as you say, many simply want someone to love or feel responsible towards. Primarily, though, I feel that kids have always been in a hurry to grow up or appear grown up. When I was young you'd do this by drinking half a dozen cans of beer and throwing up the next morning. The equivalent today is embark on a sexual adventure. What prevented many girls becoming sexually active thirty years ago were the clear social constraints. This was a very effective method of contraception. And, I'm not sure that this was, on reflection a completely Bad Thing. I would disagree with you in that in my view the majority of teenage pregnancies are not planned and are the result of kids being young and daft. Again there are exceptions. Furthermore, kids brought up in an emotionally deprived environment, are ironically, more likely to perpetuate the cycle by becoming pregnant themselves at an early age. What is essential, in any familial context, is emotional stability and a loving environment. I still believe a child born to relatively mature parents is more likely to achieve this, although, I'm not suggesting that very young mothers are in all cases incapable of providing it. I'm firmly of the view that teenage pregnancy is at crisis point.
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Rock chick
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2011 »

Hmm. Not sure I could agree entirely, Clash.

I think in some cases social constraints resulted in a lot of young women making choices they found very hard to live with, and also found themselves without choices at all. Babies being abandoned, adopted against their mother's will, the girls being sent away to institutions sometimes never to return or even worse, young women putting their health and even their lives at risk with backstreet abortions and other dangerous practices to end pregnancies because they or their families cannot bear the shame. And with unwanted pregnancies often came unwise marriaqes.

These social constraints affected women, and society's perception of women much more so than men - it's the women who were shamed, disgraced and punished, and often powerless to refuse a loveless marriages because of the stigma attached to being a simgle mother. Their families often felt unable to support them, because their daughter had Had Sex and now everyone knew...whereas the men either get away scott free, or were applauded for doing the 'right thing' by making an honest woman of her, when she was clearly no better than she ought to be...'and I suppose it is mine?' Socially and financially, these constraints disproportionately discriminated against women.

At least these days, with people having different moral standards, young women are not castigated for becoming pregnant, and families do not feel the need to either send them away or cut them off without a shilling. They are encouraged to make their own decisions, there is help to be had if they want to keep their babies, and help to be had if they don't.

In an ideal world, pregnancies should be planned by people who genuinely want them and are in a position to raise them, but the world isn't perfect, and there's all kinds of people, all kinds of parents and all kinds of families and they all work just as well and just as badly as all the others.

Statistically, for the first time last year there were more children born out of wedlock than in it. It's hard to argue that this is becoming very much the norm, rather than the exception, and that whilst some first-time parents are getting younger, many are getting significantly older.

Society is changing, and mostly for the better, I feel. And lots of young peple make great parents, and certainly won't do a worse job than their parents.
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clashcityrocker
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2011 »

Carole, I seem to have inadvertently backed myself into a corner to the extent that Iím defending a position I donít really hold. When I say ďsocial constraintsĒ this is perhaps too inflexible a term. I entirely agree that in the past social constraints did lead to a pretty raw deal for women, with regard to a lack of choices and for single mothers, or those who found themselves single and pregnant. I absolutely agree, without question, that the framework should exist to support these vulnerable women who find themselves in difficult circumstances. Gone forever are the days when expectant single mothers were bullied, harried, ostracized by their families. And rightly so. I also agree that the stigma that was attached to single parenthood is gone never to return. This change in social attitudes has proved unstoppable over the last three decades or so. No argument there.

However, my main contention remains that young people, especially girls, are sexualised far too early. In an ideal world the more open and relaxed attitude to sex should, theoretically, have led to more choice for females and less condemnation for those who choose to be sexually active, outside the parameters of a stable relationship. While this has certainly been the case in many instances, it has also led, indirectly, to the sexualisation of children. For example where I worked a few years ago there were a couple of very pretty females who drew admiring glances from all the males in that work area. These girls were tall and attractive, as I say, with exposed midriffs and tight jeans. It later transpired that one of these girls was thirteen and the other was fourteen. Thankfully when the lads were informed of this their attitude, to their credit, changed. My point is, these girls were children who should have been attracting the attention of thirteen year old boys, not thirty year old men. I donít think that this was an isolated case.

Of course nothing is more ludicrous, offensive and sinister than the state attempting to impose any brand of morality or restrictions on the sexual preferences of any of us. But, what I, idealist that I am, would wish to see is a return to the days when young girls, by which I mean those between the ages of, say, twelve and seventeen, were encouraged to exercise a little more caution and restraint when they embark on sexual adventures. Christ I sound like a Daily Mail editorial here. Having said that, I do think we as a nation have reneged on our side of the bargain with young people. Weíve denied them access to meaningful employment in so many cases, and the housing situation is at crisis point. By, most damning of all, weíve exposed them to sexuality long before they are emotionally equipped to deal with it. Extreme pornography available to all at the click of a button Ė that canít be right. And I still feel that there is a correlation between overt sexual imagery, promiscuity and the rise in teenage pregnancy.

PS, thanks for keeping me on my toes, Carol. I know my arguments arenít watertight, and lack consistency; my excuse is that Iím typing them out during my lunch break and may not have had sufficient time to make my points as well as would have liked.
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Rock chick
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2011 »

But, what I, idealist that I am, would wish to see is a return to the days when young girls, by which I mean those between the ages of, say, twelve and seventeen, were encouraged to exercise a little more caution and restraint when they embark on sexual adventures. Christ I sound like a Daily Mail editorial here. Having said that, I do think we as a nation have reneged on our side of the bargain with young people. Weíve denied them access to meaningful employment in so many cases, and the housing situation is at crisis point. By, most damning of all, weíve exposed them to sexuality long before they are emotionally equipped to deal with it. Extreme pornography available to all at the click of a button Ė that canít be right. And I still feel that there is a correlation between overt sexual imagery, promiscuity and the rise in teenage pregnancy.

PS, thanks for keeping me on my toes, Carol. I know my arguments arenít watertight, and lack consistency; my excuse is that Iím typing them out during my lunch break and may not have had sufficient time to make my points as well as would have liked.


You dear man, you couldn't sound like a Daily Mail editorial if you tried - and it may well be that you're keeping me on MY toes, nothing like forcing yourself to articulate a viewpoint - it's good for the vocabulary and good for the soul.

Of course I agree that our children grow up quite too soon, and I was definitely one of the ones egging Tescos windows and boycotting their stores for selling padded training bras and thongs sized for eight year olds, but, as in all things, there's rarely one reason for anything. And I couldn't disagree that sex is treated a great deal more casually by younger people than we could have imagined.

And in an odd way, we've come full circle on this discussion. My somewhat aged view is that sex should always mean something... not necessarily a deep spiritual experience, but an expression of something more than the rubbing together of toilet parts...love, warmth, comfort, kindness, escape... whatever.I think we have devalued that, and failed miserably to impart this to our children.


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tzara
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2011 »

catching up with the posts.

Just want to say how much I have thouroughly enjoyed reading the views of all in this thread.
It typifies the quality of debates that are on the forum

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If you want to be happy... be.

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